Talk:Kotoamatsukami
Used on Mifune It has yet to be confirmed that Danzo was using this on Mifune. Ao never said that Danzo was, All he did was reveal Shisui's power and that Danzo could be using it. --Rikudou Geass (talk) 13:52, 9 August 2009 (UTC) Didn't Kakashi also use a mind control jutsu on Zabuza during the Land of the Waves arc when they fought the first time?-- (talk) 15:00, 10 August 2009 (UTC) :Kakashi used the basic hypnotic abilities of the Sharingan. Nothing on the level this technique is supposed to be. --ShounenSuki (talk | ) 20:26, 10 August 2009 (UTC) I'd also like to get this addressed. In the convo regarding Shisui, Ao and Itachi seem to reference Shisui's ability as a trait of his actual eye power and the Genjutsu that he uses with them, not just Koto Amatsukami in particular, which is a specific Genjutsu that's related to Shisui's Mangekyou Sharingan. Do we know for certain if Danzou uses Koto Amatsukami in particular as well since it's a product of Shisui's Mangekyou Sharingan or if it's only a related Genjutsu that Shisui's eye power also possesses? Basically, do we know for certain if Danzou uses the same "exact" technique or another Genjutsu derived from Shisui's eye power and not just the Mangekyou Sharingan? Do the translations hint to this as well? --Rising Ras (talk) 05:43, August 4, 2011 (UTC) Limits Danzo said he can't use this technique multiple times a day, shouldn't that be noted? Unnamed → Shisui's Should we move this to "Shisui's Mind-controlling Dōjutsu"? --NejiByakugan36 16:25, 30 August 2009 (UTC) :It's not only Shisui's now...--AlienGamer--Talk ( )-- 16:26, 30 August 2009 (UTC) ::Good point. --NejiByakugan36 16:28, 30 August 2009 (UTC) :::See I think the whole "Unnamed" thing looks tacky in the info boxes, just give a simple name for now until the real name is revealed! maybe like Hypnotic Eye Technique or something AMTNinja (talk) 16:30, 30 August 2009 (UTC) ::::Since eye contact isn't needed, that'll cause confusion....--AlienGamer--Talk ( )-- 16:31, 30 August 2009 (UTC) :::::yeah but the power itself does derive from the eye tho right? so it could work, but anyways Im just saying it needs a decent name for now AMTNinja (talk) 20:07, 30 August 2009 (UTC) ::::::Danzō has been the only one so far to have used this technique. Sure, it was originally Shisui's, but we never saw him use it. Calling it "Shisui's Mind-controlling Dōjutsu" or something like that would unnecessarily confusing. ::::::Also, just because "unnamed" looks 'tacky' doesn't mean we should make things up. It is unnamed, full stop. Saying anything else would be giving false information. Although "unknown" would probably be better in the name box. --ShounenSuki (talk | ) 20:20, 30 August 2009 (UTC) Im not saying we make up a whole new name for it like with kanji and all dat, but just for the infobox sake, we give it a name, and the article can say unnamed and such. I mean we DO want to make the site informational and good looking right! ;D AMTNinja (talk) 20:40, 30 August 2009 (UTC) :I don't mind the infobox saying "unnamed" or "unknown". In fact, I mind it less than the infobox giving a name even though we don't have an official name. That's just misinforming people. --ShounenSuki (talk | ) 22:12, 30 August 2009 (UTC) ::I think unknown's better. Also why didn't we make a page for the technique sasuke used on the samurai? Cooltamerboy (talk) 10:11, 31 August 2009 (UTC). :::The technique Sasuke used on the samurai? What technique are you talking about? He only used his Kusanagi Sword: Chidori Katana as far as I remember. --ShounenSuki (talk | ) 12:01, 31 August 2009 (UTC) ::::Oh sorry because i got information from leafninja saying that sasuke used an unknown technique? Cooltamerboy (talk) 12:09, 31 August 2009 (UTC). :::::He doesn't use any unknown techniques, unless you're talking about that aura of hatred that appears behind him. However, that is as much a technique as the demonic aura that appeared behind Zabuza when he attacked Gatō's thugs, or the Sharingan "demons". --ShounenSuki (talk | ) 13:49, 31 August 2009 (UTC) Does Sasuke have it maybe? Sasuke might have it.Remember when he got inside Naruto's head and stopped the Nine-Tailed fox from giving him any power?Maybe he was using the mind-control thing. (talk) 20:34, September 24, 2009 (UTC) :He wasn't controling any1. He used his Sharingan to see inside Naruto, and thus appeared in his subconsciencenses (god know how). Plus doesn't sum1 say "Unique to Shinsui"?..--AlienGamer--Talk ( )-- 20:36, September 24, 2009 (UTC) kotoamatsukami is the ablility that was used by only Shisui-san through his mangekyou but since the eye has now been embedded in into the crow and the crow into naruto hence it now grants naruto the ability to cast kototamatsukami; but it can only be used by one who has Shisui-san's mangekyou and since Sasuke-san doesn't have that he can't use kotoamatsukami.--WashingAwaySins (talk) 15:29, August 6, 2011 (UTC) :It does not grant Naruto the ability to do fart. Itachi simply put it in Naruto because he was most likely to see Sasuke again and his drive to save Sasuke or something like that. Naruto serves as nothing more that an apartment complex and the crow's just another tenant.--Cerez365™ 15:36, August 6, 2011 (UTC) @cerez365: i didn't mean to give the impression that naruto can use the sharingan willingly but i meant for it to be used by naruto's crow (it's naruto's since it now is in naruto) as a response/counterattack against Itachi-san's sharingan.--WashingAwaySins (talk) 15:58, August 6, 2011 (UTC) :And I meant to give the impression that Naruto plays absolutely no part in what Itachi's crow does except to provide it with room & board.--Cerez365™ 16:42, August 6, 2011 (UTC) that's what i said as well!!--WashingAwaySins (talk) 16:52, August 6, 2011 (UTC) type is it ninjutsu or genjutsu? -- (talk) 17:37, January 21, 2010 (UTC) I think it's Genjutsu. Doryoku I think Shisui's tech is called Doryoku. here's my proof. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/480/12/ I tried to translate it and it means "great effort" :"Dōryoku" means something to the effect of "eye power". It's synonymous with dōjutsu and is not the technique's name. ''~SnapperT '' 21:09, February 26, 2010 (UTC) Doujutsu: Seigyō Hitomi Kokoro I once in my foreign language course I found a translator from English to kanji and kanji to romaji, and then be able to find this name: Doujutsu: Seigyo Hitomi Kokoro. I searched for a teacher and he said that mind control would doujutsu that way. :That name is neither proper Japanese, nor the canon name of this dōjutsu. Also, sign your posts. —ShounenSuki (talk | | translations) 23:31, October 7, 2010 (UTC) ::Well but it is the correct romaji and in fact you have to rely more on others, came here to help with some things, I'm new I do not know sign. = / :::Not knowing how to sign is no excuse, as it is clearly explained at the top of a talk page when you edit it. The name simply makes no sense in Japanese. The rōmaji might be correct for the individual words, but the phrase as a whole is nonsense. —ShounenSuki (talk | | translations) 00:03, October 8, 2010 (UTC) ::::I understand, but it has to accelerate just to know the name of the Jutsu.Thank you for your attention.=D :::::Again, sign your posts. Also, what on earth do you mean? —ShounenSuki (talk | | translations) 00:15, October 8, 2010 (UTC) Madara Madara used this on yondaime mizukage, yagura right? Call me Red Dead Itachi. :Madara used something on Yagura, but we never learned what it was. The Fifth Mizukage only thought this was a similar technique, but it's not necessarily the same. Omnibender - Talk - 02:41, December 18, 2010 (UTC) ::But think about it, UNLIKE normal manipulation techs, yagura's eyes did not become sharingan. same with mifune. whereas with the kyuubi his eyes became the sharingan Not all people under genjutsu show the caster's eyes, example Empheral used on Naruto by Itachi. Madara used a similar tech but was never named or revealed exactly what it was. Saying it was this is merely speculation. After all Itachi used a genjutsu to control someone as well in Pt. 1 when he tried to separate Naruto and Jiraiya. Not all controlling genjutsu are Shisui's tech, besides the fact Madara was mad at Danzo destroying Shisui's eye and not using it on the Kage to get the other tailed beasts just shows you it isn't the dojutsu, besides it was unique to Shisui and unless you had one of his eyes(one is destroyed) this particular doujutsu is as good as lost.Umishiru (talk) 03:14, December 18, 2010 (UTC) only beast get the eyes as the caster when under sharingan's influence, no human gets the impression of the eyes. for example, the beast got the impression of the sharingan like the time when nine-tails was controlled by madara and like the time when while fighting diadera sasuke's snake got the impression of the sharingan; but no human ever gets the impression--WashingAwaySins (talk) 15:34, August 6, 2011 (UTC) Dōjutsu no Shisui I have reviewed the spoiler of chapter 459, and translation of the Naruto Forum user stream, he mentions that is Dōjutsu no Shisui, and then talks about the technique, I ask that you review the spoiler or chapter to see if it is something real name ... If my mistake sorry. :That basically means "Shisui's Dōjutsu", though I believe it would be Shisui no Dōjutsu. Omnibender - Talk - 22:03, May 9, 2011 (UTC) Ok obrigado Omnibender, Brasil é nós. x) LosErmanos Is a Genjutsu In chapter 211, is mentioned by Danzō is a Genjutsu that, inasmuch as he reveals the eye of Shisui ... Carries this information? LosErmanos :We've known that since the technique was first revealed in the Kage Summit. Omnibender - Talk - 22:38, May 12, 2011 (UTC) it is a genjutsu since Itachi-san himself said that he implanted something into the crows left eye, pay attention to his following words "the ultimate 'genjutsu' of Uchiha Shisui's mangekyou sharingan... Kotoamatsukami"--WashingAwaySins (talk) 15:39, August 6, 2011 (UTC) :Why do you pointlessly reply to months old discussion without adding anything substantial to it? Don't do it. Omnibender - Talk - 17:50, August 6, 2011 (UTC) Itachi usage? In chapter 540, we see Shikaku and Ao discussing Itachi's genjutsu powers. One of them sounds oddly similar to this technique. Similarities include; * Not needing eye contact to initiate * Takes control of individuals and influence their actions * And is a genjutsu originating from the Sharingan With these similarities in mind, is it possible that these two techniques could be one in the same, or could we at least note these odd similarities in the article until more info comes out? --- Ten Tailed Fox 23:53, May 25, 2011 (UTC) :* People are assuming he needs no eye contact * Doesn't mean it's the same as Shisui's abilities like that are normally unique to each Sharingan * As most Uchiha cast genjutsu. * Anything's possible though improbable.--Cerez365™ 23:55, May 25, 2011 (UTC) :: The reason most people assume he needs no eye contact is because Ao said he can cast the genjutsu from beyond the range of the sensor ninja, which we've seen to be posted at the edge of each camp. Also, its not an assumption to think that Itachi can preform such a feat. We know he can cast genjutsu just by pointing, so it isn't too much of a stretch to say he can do so by other means too. Lastly, it cannot be regular Uchiha genjutsu. Only Itachi and Shisui have been commented on having particularly strong genjutsu techniques, and we know for a fact that Sasuke's genjutsu are rather poor, according to both Danzō and Madara. --- Ten Tailed Fox 00:05, May 26, 2011 (UTC) :: He didn't say he could cast the genjutsu from that range or take control of someone from that range. Mangastream's translator added that word. Shisui's genjutsu in any case is different from anything so far. It can be more liked to a "push" the movie of the same name or "Inception" the movie of the same name. His genjutsu seems to change the person rather than manipulate them constantly. ::Randy Michael (talk) 00:16, August 4, 2011 (UTC) remember the time when naruto and all went to save gaara from akatsuki and went up against Itachi-san? that time naruto was caught in Itachi-san's genjutsu when he didn't even look in his eyes, itachi-san later informed him that he can cast genjutsu by mere flick of a finger. maybe Ao was referring to that time?--WashingAwaySins (talk) 15:43, August 6, 2011 (UTC) :As far as we know, Ao never met Itachi, Shisui was never said to be capable of casting genjutsu by pointing at people. For all we know, we doesn't even have to look at the eyes or even interact with the person, just looking at them should suffice. Omnibender - Talk - 17:50, August 6, 2011 (UTC) The Final Fight It can only be reactivate in a decade meaning Naruto probably won't fight Sasuke for the next ten yrs in the timeline.--Zero62422002 (talk) 19:24, August 3, 2011 (UTC) :Or he'll fight him without this technique. —ShounenSuki (talk | | translations) 19:27, August 3, 2011 (UTC) ::Also, how would a crow know how to activate a Mangekyou Sharingan? Seelentau 愛議 19:44, August 3, 2011 (UTC) :::No, Naruto will use it. As far as I know, it's not yet deactivated, so Naruto can use it. --Ilnaruto me 19:52, August 3, 2011 (UTC) ::::The technique cannot be "deactivated" or lost per se. Naruto has no control of the crow so it would happen the same way it just did, Sasuke activates the Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan→ crow recognises Itachi's Mangekyō Sharingan→ crow comes out and does his stuff.--Cerez365™ 20:04, August 3, 2011 (UTC) The crow's Sharingan is just a normal Sharingan now. When the Jutsu was active, it was a Mangekyou Sharingan. So for the Jutsu to activate again, the crow would have to activate it's Mangekyou Sharingan again and I seriously doubt that it is capable of doing so. Also, the crow isn't inside Naruto anymore, plus Itachi's way of talking about the Jutsu makes it very clear that the Jutsu can't be used another time (at least in my opinion). Seelentau 愛議 21:06, August 3, 2011 (UTC) til now we know that Shisui's mangekyou sharingan has been used against Itachi-san and according to Itachi-san Shisui-san's mangekyou sharingan needs a decade to be available for use again. so according to the information we have uptill now the sharingan can not be used again until a decade unless there are other ways to reduce the time limit other than just using Hashirama senju's body cells. so it all states that naruto would not be able to use it against sasuke-san (well according to the available information we have uptil now).--WashingAwaySins (talk) 15:51, August 6, 2011 (UTC) :You said nothing we don't know already. And considering the Senju/Uzumaki distant relationship, I wouldn't be surprised if Uzumaki chakra, or even the Nine-Tails' yang chakra was enough to activate it. Omnibender - Talk - 17:50, August 6, 2011 (UTC) The Most Powerful Genjutsu is... I Know this is not the best place to discuss this.... but, What Genjutsu is the most Powerful? ¿Izanagi or Kotoamatsukami? Because in the new chapter Itachi said That Shisui created the most Powerful Genjutsu. --thedasilva1 (talk) 05:52, 3 August 2011 (UTC) :From the way Itachi says it in the raw, it seems to me that Kotoamatsukami is the strongest genjutsu of Shisui's MAngekyō Sharingan. —ShounenSuki (talk | | translations) 22:48, August 3, 2011 (UTC) so its confirmed Kotoamatsukami is not apart of itachis power? Even Though he said it was and it said itachi"s jutsu changes the course battle or somthing to that effect in the opening page of chapter 550.... So its not his then its confirmed by you guys?Jodyjoe0 (talk) 06:15, August 4, 2011 (UTC) crow can naruto use the crow in the fight with Sasuke? I don't understand. Does the ten years rule apply? -- (talk) 14:26, August 4, 2011 (UTC) :For me, I think he can, because it's not yet deactivated. --Ilnaruto me 14:28, August 4, 2011 (UTC) ::Actually it is deactivated - crow's sharingan is normal on page 9, plus Itachi points out that "mangekyo has faded away" -- (talk) 18:13, August 4, 2011 (UTC) :::I think they're talking about the technique's effect, not the eye's ability to cast the technique. By "they", I mean the two people who posted above you, not the characters. Omnibender - Talk - 18:17, August 4, 2011 (UTC) I think that somehow naruto will be able to use it, because if not he can't take sasuke back to Konohagakure alive.-- (talk) 12:25, August 5, 2011 (UTC) Image I don't think that the current image does a good job illustrating the technique. I think that an image of the crow at the moment it used the technique would be better suited. I don't think we should use the anime image of Danzō using it as well, since that was from a Byakugan perspective. Omnibender - Talk - 17:08, August 4, 2011 (UTC) :I don't think it really shows anything, but it isn't really one of those techniques that you can depict properly. Also, wouldn't the crow bit just be a black background with Shisui's eye?- -Cerez365™ 20:31, August 5, 2011 (UTC) Itachi as a user hmm i think it's need to be added that itachi used kotoamatsukami1 why? ill explain # shisui is dead, he can't use it anymore # itachi had his eye # he supplemented the eye so that it would cast a "protect konoha" genjutsu # he implanted it into anruto basicly what im trying to say is that it is not an itachis' tech by any means but as he ahd acces to the eye he used it. not hsi crow-but he-itachi by setting everything up as it went. to furthemore clear what i mean is- danzou ahd shisui's eye and he sued kotoamatsukami -so danzou is a user of it, itachi ahd the eye n he sset thing s up like they went(although it was ment for sasueks ems) but still itachi "used" it. so no its not his tech but via shisuis help and his own geniuseness he used it;D i hope that made it clear. i think it should be added in the "jutsu users" bar itachi uchiha.that'd only make sense. is kyuubi narutos power? is 8tails KB power? is shisuis eye danzous power? is samehada KB power? is katsuya tsunades power? then wthis was itachis power/ technique for that moment. it only makes sense dont you think.! a dead person cant activate his MS and use genjutsu-itachi set that up. ---- :You understand though, that at no point has Itachi used Kotoamatsuki yes? * He got Shisui's eyes→ still hasn't used them * Implanted into the crow→ still hasn't used it * Crow fulfils its intended purpose but on the wrong eye→ still hasn't used it. Saying he used it, is kinda saying Orochimaru uses Wood Release because of what he did to Yamato.--Cerez365™ 12:14, August 5, 2011 (UTC) then by your logic who activated the kotoamatsukami the bird? when a crow's will start casting highest level genjutsus ill eat my left arm;DD itachi had the eye and he rigged it to be used on his sight . so if yo'll make a bomb with tier n itll set off sometime l8er you wont be responsible for its activation? dont be hating or anything im just pointing what is obvious-itachi made the kotoamatsukami activate which makes him a user of it if it only was once. im not trying to hype itachi or anything but he was the one who used it by riiging it/making it a timebomb. shisuii wasnt the one who used it. its like kakashi has obitos eye so kakashi isnt using MS but obito? aperantly ir is kakashis jutsu. ehh i hope i made myself clear;) :had shisuis eye-couldnt use it due to 10year cooldown;D >implanted it in crow-hasnt used it !>:made it cast genjutsu protect konoha when countering itachis MS by using komotoamatsukami-setting it off-> used it.(even if it was in the wrong place/wrong time)-- Kotoamatsukami was activated based on the conditions Itachi had set. No one "activated" it. In the same manner if it was used on Sasuke, we wouldn't be having this discussion.--Cerez365™ 20:19, August 5, 2011 (UTC) i agree with cerez365. the jutsu was not perticularly activated by anyone. itachi-san did not activate it since he no longer weilds it, he just set up the conditions that were required for it to be activated on it's own. the crow did not activate it either since it doesn't have conscious or intelligence, it is just a body that was required for the eye to be embedded in. the jutsu's activation was just a response of coming up against Itachi-san's mangekyou sharingan.--WashingAwaySins (talk) 16:50, August 6, 2011 (UTC) but he set it to activate in conditions when it sees his sharingan. so he amde it activate-thus using it! and yet again no it's not his tech. in 550 killer B even asks why didnt "you"-refering to iatchi as user of it . use it on sasuke faster-in which he replies that it has a 10 year cooldown.even though it was a failed plan it still was activated so itachi should be added as an suer BUT noted via shisuis eye and crow. it is only senseble n reasonable. not trying to hype/bash anyone. :He set up conditions for it to activate through unknown means that does not mean he used it. If it had been used on Sasuke as intended we wouldn't be having this discussion.--Cerez365™ 13:33, August 6, 2011 (UTC) People, enough with creating tons of sections to discuss the same thing, I just merged sections about the same topic, and would have merged more if there were no other topics in between. You don't need to click "add topic" to reply in talk pages. Omnibender - Talk - 17:50, August 6, 2011 (UTC) ok i get it, haters gonna hate. its like this if itachi didn't use koto amatsukami then: #tailed beasts aint jinchuriki power?! #hashiramas DNa isnt madaras power?! #samehada isnt KB power?! #obitos sharingan isn't kakashis power?! #nagatos rinnegan which mdara implanted in himslef aint his power.?! #orochimarus dna isnt kabutos power? #great ninja treasures ain't kinkaku and ginkaku power?! get it where this leads??????????????? its been shown NUMEROUS times that it was iatchis power in manga: #when itachi gave the crow to naruto " i've given you some of my power" #"ITACHIS" jutsu changes course of battle i think kishi is giving us a hint no?!(550 1st panel) #the crow is yours inst it?(nagato to itachi) #"i layered a genjutsu on top of the enemy's jutsu"(itachi ch.550) itachi set it up so koto amatsukami would be activated when it sees his sharingan and ITACHI made it cast a genjutsu protect konoha. thus he used it. it was a part of his aresnal as a gift from shisui. it makes him an user of it. it would be used anyways on sasuke and the misshapened accident shows no inferiority to it. and tell me that these aint fact i worte. it is only logical, but yeah haters gonna hate. it should by added like this: users: shisui danzou (with shisuis eye) itachi uchiha (with shisuis eye implanted into crow) :Using caps lock and a lot of question marks and exclamation signs will get you nowhere friend. Read the numerous discussions that have been going on before you posted. The only thing Itachi used was whatever he did to implant the message into the eye. He did not/has not used the eye in any other way. If the eye were in his body or possession like all those other things you listed up there and he actually wielded it then it'd be "his power".--Cerez365™ 12:31, August 7, 2011 (UTC) there are numerous posts above which imply nothing. yet kishis implies himself by writing it that it's iatchis power-ok i dont even care n i think it shouldn't be. but itachi should be added as user of it. so by all means explain how can a dead eye cast koto amatsukami by itself? itachi set it all up so it would activate on his MS sight. so by setting the thing up doesnt make him an user of it? like transcript amaterasu seal which he implanted into sasuke-the hell its stated as his jutsu? its thesame thing. kinjutsu thats how he activated it if you ask me. ive only provided facts and sensible- se i mean sensible-logical explanation why itachi should be added as an user of it. and no its not his tech its shiuis but as he ahd his eye he gained acces to that genjutsu get where it leads-same like danzou did the only difference is that danzou ahd it in his eye socket whiule using it but itachi made it like transcript amaterasu seal and put it in crows eye via timer9timer being the waiting period to se his Ms ) Itachi used a fūinjutsu to implant a technique in Sasuke's eye. Back when those chapters came out, I was beginning to read the series, but I don't think Sasuke was considered a user of Amaterasu until he used it himself against B, after he awaking his on Mangekyō Sharigan. For all we know, all Itachi did was a "Transcription Seal: Kotoamatsukami". Same thing as the other, setting up an effect upon a specific trigger, in another's eye. Omnibender - Talk - 20:13, August 7, 2011 (UTC) :Exactly what Omnibender said, in that way he'd be a user of the "Transcription Seal: Kotoamatsukami" and not the technique itself.--Cerez365™ 20:20, August 7, 2011 (UTC) well the it'd be only logical to add it as transcript seal koto amatsukami. if you put it that way. about sasuke i meant that whilst it was his eye casting the technique is itachis and itachi is an user of it(i think you misunderstod me) and thats why its the same via koto amatsukami in crow:)-- :No it wouldn't, there's no evidence that that was what he did. It's just a very good guess.--Cerez365™ 15:02, August 8, 2011 (UTC) what guess its said in the manga numerous time sthat itachi set that up that itachi activated/embedded shisuis Ns with that control for gos sake the first panel of manga 550 even states itachis jutsu-you clearly ainti itachi mooded person. facts prove othervise and im not trying to insult or anything-im being logical The technique itself still isn't Itachi's. If had transplanted the eye into himself, it would be a different case, but it isn't. Omnibender - Talk - 23:37, August 8, 2011 (UTC) Not the most powerful Genjutsu I think the creator of the article kind of misinterpreted what Itachi said. Kotoamatsukami is not the most powerful genjutsu in general but only the most powerful that awakened in Shisuis Mangekyou. It is obvious that Izanagi is more powerful since it is able to turn the user invincible for a short period of time and the price you have to pay is much higher; you loose your sharingan. Also you can use Izanagi only once (per eye) which puts a limit to this jutsu while Kotoamatsukami can be used again and again, even if it takes a long time to reactivate. Senju DNA is required for both using Izanagi and using Kotoamatsukami more frequently. But I dont want to start a war about which technique is more powerful, we can only decide by the facts. And to me it seems that Itachi never called Kotoamatsukami the most powerful Genjutsu, only the most powerful that Shisui was capable of using. -- (talk)Timiursa :"Kotoamatsukami is the ultimate genjutsu granted by Shisui Uchiha's Mangekyō Sharingan." That is what is said, it's probably you who are misinterpreting what is there.--Cerez365™ 22:02, August 7, 2011 (UTC) ::And the term used for doesn't have the exact same meaning as the English equivalent. Kotoamatsukami, Tsukuyomi, and Izanagi can all be called "saikyō" without contradiction, according to ShounenSuki. Omnibender - Talk - 22:17, August 7, 2011 (UTC) as far as sieries have shown koto amatsukami is the strongest genjutsu without the risk that of a izanagi. only thing that can be a level higher than koto amatsukami is mugen tsukoyomi imo. but i think they should be classiifed as stringest genjutsu- all 3 of them have some special requirements izanagi-permanent lose of eye/ mugen tsukoyomi -10 tails/ koto amatsukami 10 year recharge w/o hashirama cells but. in the mangastream translation i read it on itachi stated that shisui was the strongest genjutsu user in the uchiha clan, but it did not nessicarily state the koto amatsukami was the strongest. though the way they talked about it, it was ocular jutsu of the highest order. (talk) 14:55, August 8, 2011 (UTC) :Shisui was stated to be the "strongest genjutsu user" of the Uchiha. Itachi also said, from that same mangastream translation: "The ultimate genjutsu of Uchiha Shisui's Mangekyō Sharingan".--Cerez365™ 15:02, August 8, 2011 (UTC) ::It is very likely Itachi doesn't know Izanagi, in which case Kotoamatsukami would be the strongest genjutsu in his eyes... -- (talk) 11:58, August 10, 2011 (UTC) :::That would be a baseless assumption.--Cerez365™ 13:39, August 10, 2011 (UTC) Mangekyou Sharingan? I think mangekyou sharingan is not needed to use this technique. Why? Because Danzou used it. Danzou does not have mangekyou sharingan, but he was able to use this technique! Please, answer the question!--Gaara95 (talk) 15:47, September 11, 2011 (UTC) :Danzo had Shisui's MS, he was just not seen using it. Jacce | Talk | 15:49, September 11, 2011 (UTC) He had Shinsu's sharingan, but he never activated its mangekyou form, right? You said that mangekyou activation is required to use this technique. Does it mean that Danzou can activate mangekyou?--Gaara95 (talk) 15:57, September 11, 2011 (UTC)